Referendum 1 Results in House District 27

Here's the results from Referendum 1 in legislative district 27:

Alpine: passed with 52.1% (2,340 total votes cast)
Highland: passed with 52.7% (3,265 total votes cast)
American Fork (3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 12): failed with 59.2% (3,184 total votes cast)
Draper (Utah County): failed with 51.6% (186 total votes cast)
Lehi (18): passed with 64.6% (243 total votes cast)

Referendum 1 passed overwhelmingly in some precincts, failed overwhelmingly in others, and was a coin toss in still other precincts within district 27 (AF12 passed with 53.5% despite failing in the other AF precincts).  Definitely interesting results.  What does it all mean?  Perhaps it means that Republicans were more likely to support Referendum 1 than Democrats.  It might mean that parents with students in public schools supported Referendum 1 more than voters without daily interaction with the schools (and rosy recollections of a bygone era).  At first glance, family income didn't appear to be much of a factor.  Were those that have experienced some form of school choice more likely to support another form of school choice?  Sometimes it's too bad that we can't allow comments with the ballots.   Surveys just don't generate as much response.  (About 4 years ago I sent out a survey and only received 4 or 5 back.)

What should we do as a result? Should we allow each city to option of implementing their own program?  Should those in SLC tell those in Alpine that they cannot have a voucher program.  Of course, I consider vouchers a single piece of a much larger educational puzzle.

Here's the Utah County precinct data: Referendum1_by_Precinct.pdf
(Note: absentee and provisional ballots have not been counted yet ).

Happy number crunching!

Comments

[Nate Randall]

What your numbers tell me is that we need more Democrats to move into your neighborhood.

And we need real Republican's to move back in, too. You know, the ones that actually acted like conservatives.

With you as the example in that community it is no wonder some of your constituents voted for Ref 1 after receiving inferior information from you.

And did you realize that you just admitted that the Democratic Party is more in-line with Utah's education values.

And I'm sending this post to several bloggers just in case you are too chicken to post this comment.

[John Dougall]

Read the bill file is bad information? If you are passing a bill, that is the most important document to read.

Perhaps you haven't experienced some of the horrors of the math program that was rolled out several years ago. When your child is floundering and the system doesn't seem to care, a parent is willing to look at any and every option for a better education. Perhaps you aren't experiencing the explosive growth we are. We don't have the concerns of shrinking enrollments and an aging population. We don't have the concerns of east bench communities with declining students enrollments. We don't have the concerns of the rurals who don't care because they don't have any private school. We don't have as many concerns about parents who don't parent. We have many successful professions who understand the benefits of competition and how society, as a whole, benefits. We also have a high property tax burden and can see how approaches that reduce that burden would be beneficial.

You are correct that most Democrats appear to have different educational values than most Republicans. Sounds like you believe that government knows best. I believe that parents know best, particularly when working in collaboration with teachers. Continue to push your agenda. Few of my constituents believe that government is the answer to society's problems.

Since the election, I've had many constituents who voted against the referendum provide recommedations for improving the voucher program. Several want the legislature to rerun the voucher bill with an increase in the amount for low income and reduce the amount for the high income. Some would like to tweak the testing requirements for the public schools by dumping UPASS and using the SAT-9.

You didn't swear. Why wouldn't I post your comments? I champion openness in government. Rep. Urquhart and I helped champion the use of blogging to inform the public. I pushed for easier access to public information.

By the way, I've not a conservative. Conservative implies resistant to change. I'm a classic liberal, harking back to when liberal meant expanding individual liberty.

[marshall]

This just goes to show that the only idea Republicans will ever propose for educating our children is some variation of vouchers. They can't let this defeat go and Republicans will bring vouchers back over and over again.

They can't accept that vouchers lost because Utah voters know they aren't the right solution so instead they have to make up some convoluted logic on why it failed. Republicans will keep trying until they get the message...looks like it is time to vote out Republicans that care more about their pet ideas than helping educate Utah children.

[John Dougall]

Marshall: Perhaps you don't understand the effect of a referendum. Voting down Referendum 1 indicated that the public didn't want to implement HB148/HB174 at this time. Referendum 1 didn't repeal the two other public ed vouchers already in statute (Carson Smith scholarship and the Basic Skills Remediation stipends) nor did Referendum 1 prohibit our universities from accepting Pell Grants or participating in the GI Bill program.

Also, perhaps you don't realize, but the majority of my constituents support vouchers (within certain limitations) and charter schools in additional to the traditional neighborhood schools.

You should be ashamed since you are more interested about forcing a child's education into your narrow mold, rather than expanding choices for parents to find the educational services that best meet the needs of their children. You should stop treating students like your pet lab rats and let parents be parents. The world is changing. Allowing so many students to be left behind is making Utah an academic backwater.

[marshall]

Thank you, your rebuttal just proved my point.

Vouchers is the only idea that you and other house Republicans have to improving our education system. You are spinning in every direction trying to justify why this vote didn't go your way.

Republicans have no interest in working with our community to find acceptable solutions to providing quality education to all students.

I would encourage the voters of district 27 to explore other candidates that are more concerned with improving our children's education then spinning in circles to justify a narrow ideology.

[John Dougall]

Marshall: Whoever said vouchers were the only option? If that is your assumption, then you are really misinformed. Vouchers are just one more tool in the toolbox. Empowering parents and increasing student achievement are the objective. I'm willing to use every tool to help achieve that objective.

[Cameron]

"What your numbers tell me is that we need more Democrats to move into your neighborhood."

What a stupidhead statement.

"Republicans have no interest in working with our community to find acceptable solutions to providing quality education to all students."

Ditto.

[Tom]

Pointing to the "success" of "Basic Skills Remediation stipends" is a bit misleading. As of this past summer, the "voucher" had only been paid to public school providers--no private company was eligible.

Thanks for the precinct data. =)

[Jasonthe]

You say it's "too bad we can't allow comments on the ballots."

But what more of a "comment" do you need than that 62% of our state decided this voucher program (which modeled every other voucher program) was a bad idea.

And in your suggested "solutions" you mention as a possible way forward giving each individual city the ability to tailor it's own education system, while waylaying the "failure" of our public school system, but never, not once, in this entire post, do you suggest that maybe, just maybe, we could try FUNDING our public school system properly?

Aren't you making this a bit overcomplicated in your search for a "solution"? Would you also amputate an arm because of an itch you didn't want to scratch? How about burning down your house to avoid cleaning it?

You are missing very obvious, simple solutions to a very important issue (the education of our children!) in an attempt to cling to something you obviously don't want to let go of.

Regardless, again, 62% opposed. Can we, for at least a little while, focus on our children's education now by improving public schools? Can we at least give that a shot first? Must we immediately jump back into the think-tank and begin anew a campaign for a system the majority of this state just slapped down without blinking an eye?

Questions you should be asking yourself already, in your position.

[John Dougall]

Tom: I said that the basic skills remediation stipend exists. It is a vouchers. I didn't say anything about the success of that program. My point was that the claim that vouchers is dead is an overstatement.

Jasonthe: How much is enough? There are many problems that could be solved within the current budget. Out of curiosity, if you could increase student learning / academic achievement and reduce public ed spending, would you do it? Also, part of the public motivation behind smaller school district, charter schools, open enrollment, and vouchers is to allow parents and students additional options for meeting the learning needs of the students. Are you telling me that desires of 38% of the electorate and essential half of my district are insignificant?

[dramos]

Lest we get too cocky about the wisdom of the masses, let us recall that a majority favored our adventure in Iraq and thought Saddam had WMDs.

I hear a lot about how we are not funding our schools properly. What is the proof? How do we know one way or another? If we give schools more money, how do we know it is effective?

John and I disagree on many issue - I am much further to the Left in my thinking. However, I don't allow that to interfere with my belief in accountablity.

John has asked for sugesstions on how to make changes in our schools, but all he seems to get is complaints about his favoring vouchers.

People seem to forget the the legislative process requires a great deal of compromise. To make any change is long and difficult. The voucher bills took a great deal of effort, even in our Republican dominated legislature. That is neither good nor bad - it just is.

My point is that any change requires a great deal of effort, whether the public understands it or not. So, vouchers appear dead. Big deal. People still want to have better schools. The question is how do we accomplish that?

Let's hear some good suggestions on how to improve our schools. Maybe it is giving more money. How do we know when it is enough? Whose taxes do we raise? Who is willing to do the work to get compromise? How much is it the responsibility of the legislature as opposed the the various school boards to make the changes?

Maybe you don't think the schools need to change at all? Why?

[John Talcott]

John Dougall wrote:

"Also, perhaps you don't realize, but the majority of my constituents support vouchers (within certain limitations) and charter schools in additional to the traditional neighborhood schools."

Referendum 1 was defeated in your district by 51.37% of the vote according to today's article in the Salt Lake Tribune. Isn't it a bit misleading to claim that "the majority of my constituents support vouchers"?

Also I would like to strongly suggest that you take a survey of ALL of the teachers and administrators who live in your district to find out their views on your suggestions to "improve education within existing budgets". To cherry pick the comments of a small number of educators you have spoken to who happen to share your views on merit pay and other issues in order to justify your position seems a bit disingenuous to say the least. Remember, you represent all of the constituents in your district, not just those willing to rubber stamp your views.

John Talcott